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Negligent vs. Accidental Discharge (Read 401 times)
Ironhorse
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Negligent vs. Accidental Discharge
Mar 6th, 2010 at 9:42am
 
Just curious as to what everybody's take is on what constitutes a Negligent Discharge (ND) vs. what constitutes an Accidental Discharge (AD.)

In my opinion, 99.99% of unintended discharges are ND's, and could be avoided by simply keeping your ratzafrackin' finger away from the trigger until you are ready to fire your weapon. Period. End of story. But let's say you're setting your gun down on a shooting bench, and a slightly protruding nail catches the trigger and discharges your weapon. AD? I think not. Why? Simple - the trigger is the mechanism that makes your gun go "boom." You must constantly mind what is in the vicinity of that mechanism, if you don't want your gun to go "boom."

So, what, then, constitutes an AD? In my opinion, these DO happen, but are very, very rare. An AD is when, due to some design malfunction, or broken part - a gun discharges without any manual manipulation of the trigger.

I think the vast majority of firearms related accidents could be averted, if only shooters were more aware of what's in the vicinity of the trigger, and practiced strict "muzzle discipline" (never allowing the muzzle of their weapon to cover anything or anybody they didn't want to shoot, even for a split second.)

What say you?
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Big Mickey
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Re: Negligent vs. Accidental Discharge
Reply #1 - Mar 6th, 2010 at 12:57pm
 
An old Range Safety Officer, who had about 900 years of experience, once told me that there is no such thing as an accident.  He defined an accident as "an untoward event that it totally unexpected."  He said that if people took care about how things were done, they could foresee the logical consequences of their actions and there would be no accidents. 

That's a bit extreme, as it does not include things such as catastrophic mechanical failure.  However, he said there would be no catastrophic failures if proper maintenance were done. 

Anyway, there's a bunch of truth to his assertion.  When I've looked carefully at "untoward events" that have occurred to me and others, I've found that they all could have been foreseen, if someone had looked. 

I agree with your 99.9% but would only add a + to the end of it.
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Re: Negligent vs. Accidental Discharge
Reply #2 - Mar 6th, 2010 at 2:00pm
 
It's been my experience that when people are either talking or their minds are wondering and not concentrating on what's at hand that ND occur.....and it can happen to any of us.
I once judged a NRA Sanctioned Muzzleloader shoot in which time during the loading of their rifles this one particular fella was jabbering away...at one point he double loaded his gun and fired but later that day when he was shooting the 200 yard range competition I saw something unusual. Talking away as usual I saw something fly down range of the fireing line toward the targets........it was his ramrod. With all this distraction he forgot to remove it from the barrel. Then after the shot he accused someone of taking is his ramrod and pointing fingers.....it wasn't untill I came down to the line and suggested he check the target boards during the next cease fire......he did and that quited him for the rest of the day.
Concentration on practice and procedure  in handling will keep these type of incidents to a minimum.
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M1911A1 Steve
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Re: Negligent vs. Accidental Discharge
Reply #3 - Mar 6th, 2010 at 3:24pm
 
In all my years of shooting, I have only seen one life-threatening "accident."
It was caused by a relatively new shooter who got confused for a second and left her finger in the triggerguard as she reholstered.
Her know-it-all boyfriend, who was coaching her, had gotten bored and was not watching her as closely as he should have been.
Result: Serious hole-in-leg syndrome, followed by boyfriend's panic and verbal recriminations aimed at the lady. He was told to shut up and to drive her to the nearest hospital.
My take: It was a clear case of negligence, but not that of the shooter. It was the "coach" who caused it.

I have been guilty of two "accidents," and I can attest that they both were products of inattention and carelessness. That moves them, too, out of the realm of AD, and into the wonderful world of ND.
They were useful learning experiences, I must say. Proof: I never did anything like them again.
Neither ND was life-threatening, because of good ingrained habits, but both were dangerous.

No, there's nothing I can think of that could ever be called an "Accidental Discharge."
To me, they are all due to inattention or negligence, and are therefore Negligent Discharges.
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Steve
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Dave49
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Re: Negligent vs. Accidental Discharge
Reply #4 - Mar 6th, 2010 at 5:46pm
 
Being a safety professional, I STRONGLY subscribe to the thought that there is no such thing as an accident.  Everything is caused, intentionally or otherwise.  As such, I rarely use the word and instead use the word incident.  I think it is a much better descriptor of what occurred.
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Re: Negligent vs. Accidental Discharge
Reply #5 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 9:04pm
 
Actually, I think any thread that discusses the possibility of an unintended gun discharge occurring is a very important and very serious thread.  For newbies it can be very informative, and for the more experienced people, it can serve as a reminder.
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Re: Negligent vs. Accidental Discharge
Reply #6 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 11:16pm
 
Big Mickey and Dave49 are right in their analyses. When investigating industrial accidents (in a past position) we used the terms "avoidable" and "unavoidable". Findings were that in most cases the accident (unplanned incident) was avoidable. There were very few unavoidable. Proper training and alertness had to be exercised, whether in a sheet metal factory or in making gauze pads for medical use (or on the firing line).
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M1911A1 Steve
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Re: Negligent vs. Accidental Discharge
Reply #7 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 11:25pm
 
Quote:
SERIOUS THIS IS A RIDICULOUS TOPIC

IF YOU DONT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE, YOU NEED NOT OWN ANY GUNS


IF YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW I COULD ASK MY NIEGHBOR DOWN THE STREET WHO HAS DOWN SYNDROME AND SHE COULD TELL YOU THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE!  BUT GOOD LUCK WITH IT!

This person has been banned.
His posts were intentionally inflammatory and aggressively abusive.
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Steve
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Stingray
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Re: Negligent vs. Accidental Discharge
Reply #8 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 11:34pm
 
Thank you Steve !
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Re: Negligent vs. Accidental Discharge
Reply #9 - Jul 23rd, 2010 at 2:15am
 
Thanks Steve.  Good job.
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M1911A1 Steve
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Re: Negligent vs. Accidental Discharge
Reply #10 - Jul 23rd, 2010 at 2:30am
 
I didn't do the banning. Bruce did.
I just made the announcement, that's all.
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Steve
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Hardtack6
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Re: Negligent vs. Accidental Discharge
Reply #11 - Jul 23rd, 2010 at 6:22pm
 
Wow, this is one time we praise the messenger...
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